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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER
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dtdt88
Re :   Sex With A Narcissist

 that link on sex with a narcissist, wow. I couldnt figure out why he treated me like love making is dirty and he cannot kiss me during or after because my mouth is dirty.  To me what ever the two involved agree on as safe and loving is just making love.  That is all I know, making love. So many things in that link... with holding as he believes he needs to punish me, and it is punishing. He makes me feel dirty for wanting to make love with my mate.

The hardest thing for me right now is realizing that there is no hope.

He was laying in bed watching football and I was just sitting there bored and quiet.  He rolled over on to his stomach and I asked are you going to sleep? He snapped at me, I don't know. so I asked are you tired? he said, I don't know.  I went out and fed his dog and noticed the water dish was empty. I filled it and while placing it down the dog growled, I corrected him and he growled again. I then removed the food until the dog settled. Then I went to put dishes away from the egg skillet I made for him for lunch. then I unloaded the washer. When finished with these little chores I went back into the bedroom to ask him what he wanted for supper.  he yelled at me, "What is your f''ing problem, I am trying to sleep. Why is it when I am trying to sleep you slam the cupboards, throw dishes around, yell at the dog. (i didn't yell at the dog, I just said no to him) 

I said, I didn't go out there to try to wake you. I just was taking care of things. I wasn't loud or quiet just doing things.  He called me a B and turned away.

If I do not speak I am accused of pouting. If I speak I am accused of yelling. I wait for him to get out of bed to pick up or cook or clean or take care of the dog... today he woke at 1200 I woke him on purpose.  I went in quietly and whispered, honey, it is noon, is your football team playing. It is so scary because I do  not know if I am going to be yelled at or not.  He didn't yell at me for that.  So I was leaving the room and he then he yelled at me, Are you going to come in here and wake me up for footbal and then leave without turning the TV on for me?  so I turned it on and left the bedroom.

he was up to watch the game eat lunch or breakfast...  then back to sleep.

I keep thinking that he can change.  I mean it makes sense to me that since I have figured it out and know his dirty little secrets... why not love me and learn how to be a better person with me?

my feet are bleeding from the egg shells.





11/22/2009 18:25 PM


CheeCheeRo
Re :   Will I Love Myself Again? Seriously.

Thanks Lori. It was just nice to feel like I was heard. And, you are right about God, he is the only reason I am not in an institution after dealing with Jim.

Good advice on the dog....and I just happen to have a perfect one.

Thanks again.


11/22/2009 14:52 PM


lkay
Re :   Does NP/ Sociopath have a cure?

 Hi You Guys,
This is the topic I was looking for.  I got on this site called The Love Safety Net, check this site out.  She and he are from Australia and she actually has transformed him.  The site gives you hope on maybe getting your narcissist transformed, so at times it's difficult because if you're like me at times I just want to cut and run.  However, I would encourage you all to purchase the little e-book that she discusses, it's 19.99, I think and it's really well worth it.  You sign up and then you're on their e-mail and they have internet radio shows.  He talks about stuff.  He'll say, "Yes, when she acted this way and started doing this, it got me really thinking and respecting her and seeing the wrongs within me."  It's really open.  I've been with my N for 7 years.  I finally, read to him about narcissism and explained to him that he is a Narcissist.  I did this over time and I did it in a loving way.  They say these Narcissists, realize that you're their only way out of their sickness, even if they don't know yet that they are sick or Narcissist, etc.  They are hurting individuals, because of the past and such.  My husband was beaten and abused as a child.  My husband goes to church and believes in the Lord and I'm using that to help with this transformation.  I have a counselor who understands what I'm doing.  I've taught her a bit about narcissists behavior and I've learned about it by doing research on the internet.  There's a book, called Help I'm in Love with a Narcissist.  But, the best resource for transforming your N is this stuff off the website I mentioned above.  Let's keep up the discussions.  I hope this helps,  Lori.  Oh, and by the way, I'm still working on the transformation with mine so it's a work in progress and maybe I can share more as we go along.


11/21/2009 16:21 PM


lkay
Re :   Why would he do this?

 You know, as long as you play the "victim" then he will stick around.  He's only looking for a victim, whether it's you or the next person he gets involved with.  You be the strong MOJO that you really are.  I know you're strong because you've endured him.  You're more of a MOJO than you think.  You are an excellent person, you are a child of God.  God might be talking to you here, putting you through a little test.  God is saying "Hey, I want you to love YOURSELF!"  "I want you to realize that you already have my love, so if you could love yourself enough to move on from this negative entity and move to ME, I'm the positive entity."  Follow my path and you will find peace within.   I hope this helps, Lori


11/21/2009 16:11 PM


lkay
Re :   Lost track of this board for awhile

 Yes, you'll need to get a counselor that understands narcissism and hopefully, they can lead you to a good lawyer.  But, it  is essential that you get his actions written down and get it to a professional so that it is setup with someone on the tracks this Narcissist has put you through.  Get a comrade, get someone to help you write down all that has transpired and how you've been manipulated through this through abuse.  You need some mentors.  Have you thought about going to a church and talking with one of the pastors.  Go to a bigger church where they have several pastors to listen to your story.  You are not alone in this unless you stay alone.  Please seek a comrade, mentor, pastor, professional counselor any of these for help.


11/21/2009 16:04 PM


lkay
Re :   Will I Love Myself Again? Seriously.

 Just remember you have a lot of worth.  You are a child of God.  God loves you and you don't need anyone else to love you as long as God loves you.  Now, I know we all want love and acceptance from another human on the planet, so I'm not trying to take light of that.  But first and foremost you are God's child.  God does not want you to be tormented by another human being.  Your ex is playing with the devil.  God is Love.  He means to harm.  He's only looking for his next victim.  Don't let that be you.  Life is short and you deserve a better path.  Remember life is short and this dude just ain't worth it.  Don't feel sorry for yourself too long.   Lift yourself up and be Thankful for all of the things you have and roof over your head and clothes and food and family, things like that.  Do you have a dog or cat.  They love you, smooch on them and be thankful and that might help you to move on.  I hope this helps you.  Lori


11/21/2009 15:58 PM


CheeCheeRo
Topic :   Will I Love Myself Again? Seriously.

We dated almost a year and then we got married. I thought he had some 'commitment problems', but just thought it was because he was 45..never married..never had kids. He just had to have me...on & off. He would brag about how wonderful I was.....at first and against my better judgement, we married. 6 months later, on my birthday, he decides he doesn't want to be married anymore. That simple, there was no other man/woman...nothing. He just liked being alone, with his tv, his drums, his fantasies, and his mom.

I was heart broken. I left on my birthday, no card, no gift and drove 5 hours to be with friends (I had moved to his city, his home). I was/am crushed. Now don't get me wrong I feel better than I did when it happened 2.5 months ago, but I'm still crushed. I think about the stuff he stole of mine when he and his mother packed my things and had them shipped. I think about how on the day I left, he had some of our wedding gifts that he wanted his mother to have in his truck because he didn't want to take the chance of me taking them. Why would that be important to him when his marriage is going bye bye. I think about how he ranted and raved at me when I would call him...blaming me for the demise of our marriage and how I was sick and needed help, and how he would never marry again or trust another woman. What??

Even now, I will email him and he might email me back, he might not and if he does it is a sentence or two and then silence..like he knew that I would be hanging and waiting for his reply. I believe he enjoys ignoring and hurting me. We never talk on the phone anymore. I don't understand why I still feel the need to have his acceptance. This is not healthy and I am aware of that.


So much more and I am sure we all have very long long stories. Long and painful stories.

What can I do to move this healing along and how do I not care about him or anything about him? Will I ever be the same. Will I love being me again? These are not questions of pity, but questions that seek help in healing. I want to be me again. Thanks.


11/21/2009 00:03 AM


LynnS1
Re :   Lost track of this board for awhile

Treading, as to your immediate feelings, if you are contemplating self-harm at all, then please call a suicide hotline or go to your ER or call 911.  If you need resources or numbers for a suicide hotline, I can post those for you. 

I am so sorry you are in such difficulties because of your entanglement with him.  Can you also talk to someone about the situation who can objectively talk to you about what your options are?  Perhaps a lawyer, a counselor?

Lynn


11/05/2009 14:29 PM


Treading_W
Topic :   Lost track of this board for awhile

Nothing is changed, I am still with my N. I first wrote on this board 4 or 5 years ago when it was with MSN.

Now there is a business entaglement, i am in so deep and am so depressed I think about suicide almost everyday. I even described my plan on craigslist and got quite a few compliments, it is not your typical sleeping pill or wrist cuts. But i doubt I will really do it, I don't have the courage, not that I am afraid to suffer, been thru plenty of that. It hurts other people and it just seems he wins that way.

One thing I know, he is truely insane, not a devious conartist, but he truely believes what he is doing and it has nothing to do with reality. And nobody can tell him othewise. And through me he has access to normal people who get hurt. I don't want it to happen but he manipulates me and I am so tired of fighting him. Suicide is just a way to get control of my life again. He has distroyed me financially, mentally and emotionally. I have isolated myself from everyone I know and do not even want to be around people anymore.

Now in this new business of his, there are a lot of laws which he disregards, but I am the one in the line of fire. Funny how it worked out that way, and boy does he have plans. I know I will end up in court and maybe jail. Oh and it wll be my fault of course.

I just wish he would dump me and find someone else. He is so obsessed with me and I don't get it, I am nothing special. I left for a couple months last year and it only strengthened his addiction to me. I am thinking I could finially learn all the tricks here to make his life miserable and hopefully won't get killed and he will move on.

It is late. I will be back tomorrow.


11/03/2009 01:30 AM


pixienut74
Re :   Why would he do this?

This is just like my ex. Its common i think


11/01/2009 09:14 AM


Mara1978
Re :   Does NP/ Sociopath have a cure?

Hi Jezugma,

I was looking for the same information as you were and got to this link.  Did you work it out? I´m in a similar situation, it´s been about 2 years and it´s getting too hard to handle.  I´m so sad.  If you could please tell me about your experience, how come you realized it...it´s not so easy, you must know...i was very confused at first...i thought he was using drugs but he came out clean...you posted this message on february current year, right? How much time had you been going through all these tortures?

MAra


10/29/2009 18:49 PM


msthing
Re :   Sex With A Narcissist

No they are too involved into themselves and self gratification to really give of themselves for a great lovemaking session.


10/29/2009 08:40 AM


Gia29
Topic :   So You (target) Think You Are Special

 

You Think That You Are So Special...

Edited by Tavia
written by <script>e_gen("heartless-bitches.com","Annesthesia","Annesthesia")</script>Annesthesia
(In memory of the machinations of a borderline controller, with condolences to all the other women who came before (and will come after), and once thought THEY were special too...)

updated Sept, 2001

. . . that it won't happen to you. He'll be different with you.

You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his ex. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, building a career, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his ex the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his shit with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targetting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if it was less than a year after breaking off with his ex before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his ex-wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counsellor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his ex-wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

So what if he USED YOU to break a trust with a woman he was already seeing? It's not like they were actually *partners* or anything! She was just convenient for hurting his ex (he set her up really nicely to do that a couple of times), getting attention, an ego stroke, and occasional sex while he was waiting for the *right* woman to show up. Since you came along, he doesn't need her anymore. He's got YOU to feed his ego. And breaking her trust was a convenient way to ensure that he wouldn't have to bother with her anymore and could focus on YOU. He did it so carefully too. (He knows that it's the series of "gentle" cuts that leave the most stinking wounds.) That way, SHE would be the one saying she didn't want to have anything to do with HIM, and he could blame HER for why they can't still be friends. Isn't he clever? What a creative way to get rid of someone when they are no longer useful!

And if this most recent woman doesn't want to see him anymore or even be friends with him, it must be because she is jealous of the wonderful relationship you and HE have! It must be because he dumped her for you, and she's just not big enough to accept that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the WAY he did things or tried to blame HER for his behavior. It couldn't have anything to do with him LYING to her and using her, and having a hidden agenda of expectations that he told her she just wasn't living up to. Nope. That would be his old M.O. playing out again, and he was a changed man by the time he met you. So it couldn't be THAT.

Besides, even if she deeply cared about him, he didn't have the same deep feelings for her, so that makes it ok to have sex with you, before talking to HER about it, right? He was just so TAKEN with you! Doesn't that just make you feel all . . . oh, I don't know - SPECIAL? She just wasn't long term partner material, and he made that clear to her anyway. If she knew he didn't have the same feelings, and was willing to continue to be used by him because she had fallen in love with him, who was HE to turn down that kind of attention and strokes? It's not like he had any responsibility to not take advantage of someone who was emotionally vulnerable or anything. And he broke things off with her eventually. He just didn't tell her about you and the sex stuff right away because he wanted to *protect* her from getting hurt. What a GREAT guy! See, he really did have amazing consideration for HER feelings! Withholding information isn't the same as LYING or anything. That's not dishonest, right? It couldn't possibly be that he was deliberately stringing her along until he was sure YOU were hooked. No. He's too sweet and charming and nice for that. He was just CONFUSED about his feelings, that's all. Besides, it's not like you two had UNPROTECTED sex before he told her about you, so that he could use you (the way he used HER) to break THAT trust as well... Even if he's BROKEN A SACRED TRUST THIS SAME WAY, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE (with other partners and lovers), he wouldn't be repeating the same old abuse patterns with you.

You're special.

And even if he WAS being dishonest at the start of your relationship, he lied to someone ELSE. It's not like he was dishonest with YOU (that you know of, yet), so that makes it OK, right? (So what if ms-non-partner-material thought the same thing, and excused him, the first time she found out he was dishonest with her? This time, he will be different, because he really LOVES you.)

Of course, he told you how his last sex partner said she didn't think it would last between you two (when he broke it off with her)... but he couldn't be using THAT as a ploy to hook you further (wanting to prove her wrong). So what if he used exactly the same line on each new mark in the past, telling the next one in line that the previous one didn't believe the two of you could last? He wouldn't be using LINES and PLOYS and subtle MANIPULATION on YOU...

Even if in his past, he DID say,

"Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly...

It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads."

... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with her, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing cream into your hands and feet at night, sending you little cards, reading to you in the afternoon, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. All those wonderful things he has done - all the romantic things, all the ways he has helped out and called, and done things for you, they couldn't all be just scripts. "Stock Techniques" for hooking. No. This time, he's sincere. This time he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his ex (just about the time you two met): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

So what if two of the other women he was involved with wound up in the psychiatric ward? So what if he "helped" a vulnerable friend by encouraging her to break her marriage vows, exacerbating her marital problems, and then abandoning her when she asked if he could be there for her? He needed an ego stroke and she was conveniently there and conveniently vulnerable from a death in the family. So what if he undermined his ex's support network and used a mentally ill woman's attraction to him to try and hurt her further? So what if he used and hurt a dying woman so that he could feel needed and in control? He was just being HELPFUL to all those women. Maybe he LIED to them, sometimes, but that was only to PROTECT the fragile little dears. He's SUCH a sensitive guy, you see. He couldn't POSSIBLY have been USING people for ego strokes.

So what if he used and was abusive to his life-partner's children in order to get back at his her? Hurting and using kids is excusable, right? (After all, she must have deserved it. THEY must have deserved it. Right? Because he really DOES love kids... or at least, that's what he has said...) The guy YOU know could never be like that. And... well... even if he WAS, he's obviously changed. He's undergone a miraculous transformation in just one year. He's just shed ALL those abusive patterns and become a NEW man. He's going to be completely different, with you.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Just because all those other women were "damaged", doesn't mean that he will someday be telling people how damaged YOU are... Not YOU. You're SPECIAL.

His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. SHE must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his ex. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be looking for a person to hook into that is in a different town so that she has less likelihood of finding out his past. He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if most of his ex(s) don't want to have anything to do with him, and some now think he is mentally ill, it must be because THEY are unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with them TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.

This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtlely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life. And, of course, you keep your kitchen immaculate, so he'll have no reason to criticize THAT.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices and moves in with you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his ex was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? He had this abusive childhood, so nobody else is allowed to have anger except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU.

He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after they broke up, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his ex, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him...

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

Even if he HAS been emotionally abusive and dishonest with others, he's going to be different with you. Especially after you two move intogether. It IS especially hard on him having a long-distance relationship. He wouldn't be talking about how hard it is to keep up the intensity and connectedness over such a distance. He wouldn't be implying that the relationship might not last if you don't move in together... He wouldn't have some kind of hidden agenda around that. He wouldn't be trying to subtley manipulate you, and get you worried about losing him, like he did with the others. He just REALLY CARES for you, and really wants the two of you to be together.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU.

So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you.

He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his ex could be FRIENDS now. Even though he NEVER ONCE called her or emailed her and said, "Listen, I don't want it to end like this. Can we please talk?" (Even when he was still living downstairs. Even when she was in tears, begging him to *please* leave. NEVER ONCE.) SHE is the one to blame for all the bad feelings. It was HER responsibility to rectify things with HIM. And he can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

He's so sensitive and compassionate, he couldn't have talked coldly to them about killing animals or wanting to break someone's legs. No. Not the man YOU know. He's different with YOU.

And when he starts telling you how much he MISSES his adult son, it won't be to deflect, and distract you from being upset with him because he has just said or done something really inconsiderate or unkind. It won't be to evoke sympathy from you and get you thinking what a wonderful, caring parent he is. Just because he lived less than a mile away from his son and hardly ever SAW him doesn't mean that the "missing" monologue is for attention and redirection.

He's so nice right now, so supportive. So what if he was that way with her too at the beginning? He won't revert back to his headgames of praising and encouraging one minute and subtlely criticizing how you keep the house, the way you do things, things you say, in the next. He wouldn't yank YOUR chain like that.

He's so attentive right now, so interested in everything you say and do! He won't turn around one day and tell you he's NOT INTERESTED in the things that interest you, and then accuse you of not paying enough attention to HIM. He won't get mopey and upset because you get more attention than he does at social functions. He won't resent you for your charisma. Just because he did that before doesn't mean he's going to do it again with YOU. As long as you make sure HE is the center of attention, and he's getting his ego stroked, he probably won't get nasty with you... Right? It couldn't be that he is a bottomless pit, and that you can NEVER give him enough attention. Not the man YOU know. Not with YOU. You're special.

And the fact that another woman's experience was so terrible with him, his distortions and multiple personalities so devastating that she felt compelled to warn other people about him and the "type" of abuser he is - well that's no consequence. It must have been *her* that brought it out in him. He's so different now that he's found YOU and your healing love. So what if he said the same kinds of things to her? You are going to ignore those nagging little doubts in the back of your mind, because you want to believe so badly in the sweet, helpful, romantic person he is portraying right now. You don't want to believe there is a dark malicious side to him that enjoys seeing others suffer. You want to believe you are special, and he is right there encouraging you, building you up, telling you how nobody understands him the way YOU do. He's telling you that he just wants to stop feeling BAD about himself (and she made him feel that way, the witch!). He's telling you that if he can't make it work with you, he's afraid he can't make it with ANYONE... It's so tragic... (Yeah, he said that to her too, but so what?)

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his shit together. Not because he REALLY apologized (without interlacing it with blame) to anyone he harmed in the past, or made amends. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?



If you still think you are Special? Perhaps you should read this chapter from Romeo's Bleeding, by Roger Melton...


Forward this ARTICLE to someone who needs to answer the CLUE PHONE



10/28/2009 16:41 PM


msthing
Re :   Reply To LynnS1

Reply to LynnS1 (10/16/2009 18:40 PM)

Sarah, he simply threw you a crumb to see if you'd bite, to see if he still had power over you.  With N's, more supply is better.  They don't call or contact because they 'miss you' or want to be close to you.  They don't think that way.

He's a user and you deserve better than that, especially after what you've been through.  You're more than a 'quick session'.  For him to even say that to you is appalling. 

Hugs,
Lynn


I agree with you on this, when the N i was dealing with. We are no longer 2gether.  When were discussing our relationship i was appalled when he asked me despite the pain i was trying to get over to him on how i felt about things he said well i guess now we will be a biannual couple.  That remark right there as much as it hurt was a wake up call to let me know how he really felt.


10/26/2009 08:19 AM


Gene_P
Re :   How to figure out who the N in the relationship?

Thanks,
I am in the process of confirming my own status with professionals, I'll take it from there. I love her very much. 


10/25/2009 12:06 PM


npd
Re :   How to figure out who the N in the relationship?

I think that's its mainly for the kids you want to stay with her. You're doing your best but its not working. I think that the best thing for the kids is for you to be apart from her. It cant be good for them to see the fighting. Of course you dont want to lose contact with them. Never mind the wife asking you to come back. This is abusive. I would ask an experienced shrink to advise you how best to deal with this
You are surely not a Narcissist. They dont ask questions to message boards or anyone because "they know everything, and are always right" (in their minds)


10/24/2009 19:20 PM


Gene_P
Re :   How to figure out who the N in the relationship?

I get what you mean(a few times over :) ). Wife don't know I am here just told her I was reading up on the subject. But your right I want to prove something but I am ready for either outcome. If I am the abuser then I want help! I plan to ask my therapist to look my relationship from this angle. Don't really know what else to do. There is no one else to prove anything to except me and her, Wife and kids are all I have.

Everything I read seems to be written for or from the victim point of view, has an abuser ever recovered and written anything.
 
What I feel guilty about the most is when she says that I have made the last 10 years of her life miserable. If this is true and she already threw me out of the house why does she stop me from leaving everytime and why can we talk on the phone as if there were no problems and play internet games and tell each other "I love you" She wants me to come over tommorrow and help her out with some things that need to be done around the house. She is already dropping hints I should spend the night.

Guess I go back to reading.


10/23/2009 17:10 PM


cdnmlmic
Re :   How to figure out who the N in the relationship?

seems to me that just the fact that you are trying to analyze the situation points in the direction that you are not an N.  Plus most N's do not FEEL guilt of any kind.

However, if you are doing all the things you describe and writing on this forum to PROVE to your wife or to yourself that you are not an N would mean that you are!  Get what I mean?  Only you can know what your motivation is.

You said you always tell your children how much you love them.  Your wife says she wants you to treat her like you do the children.  Maybe you should?  Maybe she just needs to know you love her and respect her?

Just because you are not violent does not mean you are not abusive.  Verbal and emotional abuse are just as bad as physical abuse.  In some ways worse because they are not tangible and can not be seen like a bruise.

However to reiterate, N's DO NOT FEEL GUILTY for what they do.  I personally don't think an N would even bother taking the tests or going to counselors unless they want to PROVE to family friends and anyone who will listen that THEY are the good guy and the WIFE is the one who is crazy.  Only you can answer that.


10/23/2009 12:49 PM


cdnmlmic
Re :   How to figure out who the N in the relationship?

seems to me that just the fact that you are trying to analyze the situation points in the direction that you are not an N.  Plus most N's do not FEEL guilt of any kind.

However, if you are doing all the things you describe and writing on this forum to PROVE to your wife or to yourself that you are not an N would mean that you are!  Get what I mean?  Only you can know what your motivation is.

You said you always tell your children how much you love them.  Your wife says she wants you to treat her like you do the children.  Maybe you should?  Maybe she just needs to know you love her and respect her?

Just because you are not violent does not mean you are not abusive.  Verbal and emotional abuse are just as bad as physical abuse.  In some ways worse because they are not tangible and can not be seen like a bruise.

However to reiterate, N's DO NOT FEEL GUILTY for what they do.  I personally don't think an N would even bother taking the tests or going to counselors unless they want to PROVE to family friends and anyone who will listen that THEY are the good guy and the WIFE is the one who is crazy.  Only you can answer that.


10/23/2009 12:49 PM


cdnmlmic
Re :   How to figure out who the N in the relationship?

seems to me that just the fact that you are trying to analyze the situation points in the direction that you are not an N.  Plus most N's do not FEEL guilt of any kind.

However, if you are doing all the things you describe and writing on this forum to PROVE to your wife or to yourself that you are not an N would mean that you are!  Get what I mean?  Only you can know what your motivation is.

You said you always tell your children how much you love them.  Your wife says she wants you to treat her like you do the children.  Maybe you should?  Maybe she just needs to know you love her and respect her?

Just because you are not violent does not mean you are not abusive.  Verbal and emotional abuse are just as bad as physical abuse.  In some ways worse because they are not tangible and can not be seen like a bruise.

However to reiterate, N's DO NOT FEEL GUILTY for what they do.  I personally don't think an N would even bother taking the tests or going to counselors unless they want to PROVE to family friends and anyone who will listen that THEY are the good guy and the WIFE is the one who is crazy.  Only you can answer that.


10/23/2009 12:49 PM

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